“We were beaten by the best quarterback in the nation.” Clemson coach Tommy Bowden
I am taking a page out of Mike’s book to bitch about ACC football. BC beat Clemson last night, and locked up a trip to the ACC title game. (Rooting for the Cavs to make it.) However, earlier in the day Duke, which has again failed to win a single conference game this season, got the stuffing knocked out of it by Notre Dame. This was, arguably, the one year when Duke-ND should have been an even match, which brings me to my point. It is absurd that Clemson, or any other ACC Atlantic team gets to count a win over the hapless Blue Devils in the race to the ACC championship. As has been demonstrated again this year, there is great parity in the ACC. With the exception of Duke, any ACC team can beat any other team on any given night. But because Duke is so pathetic, any Atlantic Division school that draws Duke as a cross-division game gets an unfair advantage. It’s a free conference win. Basketball success is great, but the ACC is an all sports conference. The ACC leadership needs to have a serious discussion with the Duke AD and President. And I don’t by the Dukie’s “we don’t care about football” retort, or the academic argument “but our guys graduate” (so do the Eagles and they are in the top 25 all the time), or the list of Blue Devil championships in golf, fencing and tennis. At least it was fitting that it came down to BC vs Clemson, since it was Clemson’s upset of BC in the 1940 Cotton Bowl that put the Tigers on the national football map.
BTW, speaking of Notre Dame…
…while I’m bitching, has anyone else noticed that every other network covering any other school cuts away from every game right after the clock runs out whereas the Notredame Broadcasting Company covers the playing of the alma mater, interviews players, and heaps on the praise about how ND graduates its players — as if they are the only ones. If you didn’t know this was the worst season in ND history and just tuned into NBC’s coverage of ND’s hollow victory over Duke, you would think they just won the national championship. I am sure this post is going to elicit a retort from the usual suspect about my being obsessed with the Irish. But it isn’t obsession to notice the bull. I think Knute Rockne All-American and Rudy weren’t enough, ND needs another movie. It should be a training film for public relations professionals called “The Never Ending Campaign”.
November 18th, 2007
You know where football stands in Duke’s eyes when Greg Paulus decided to attend Duke and *only* play basketball. He was one of the top recruited high school quarterbacks, and could have had potential impact on the football program. This from the Duke athletic web site: (these are all football stats)
“… was heavily recruited by the nation’s top football programs as well … a four-time all-state, All-CNY and all-league selection as a quarterback … held six New York state records, including career passing yards (11,763) … had 152 passing touchdowns in 45 career games … led CBA to a 42-3 four-year record, including a 13-0 mark and the NYSPHAA Class AA championship as a senior … named the 2004 Gatorade National Football Player of the Year … collected All-America honors from U.S. Army, Parade and Student Sports … second team All-USA Today selection in 2004 … starting quarterback for the East squad in the U.S. Army All-America game … New York Class AA and CNY Player of the Year as a senior … named MVP of the Class AA Championship game … named the National High School Coaches Association senior athlete of the year.”
November 18th, 2007
Oh, and on ND’s celebration… As ND just got their first home win this late in the season (and it took Duke to make it happen after playing two service academies), the probably were celebrating like they won a national championship.
November 18th, 2007
All I can say is . . . wow.
You can’t really be serious, can you Bob?
Are you saying that if BC had gone 12-1, you wouldn’t be arguing for them to go to the NC game? Despite playing Bowling Green and UMass?
Also, didn’t you join the ACC to have a 12-team league and a lucrative conference championship game?
Give me a break.
The Big 12 has Baylor and the SEC has Vanderbilt. The Big Ten even has Northwestern AND Indiana. And yet schools from all of these conferences have somehow found a way to win national championships.
Maybe the deck is only stacked against BC . . .
November 18th, 2007
Oh yeah, and what does it say about the quality of football in the ACC when Bowden mistakes the #55 passing efficiency QB, fresh off three horrible games, as, “The best QB in the nation.”
November 19th, 2007
BTW – don’t take my Duke comments on Paulus as condoning their approach. I agree their football performance is embarrassing.
Duke’s last in-conference win was in 2004 (11/13/2004 vs Clemson). They had two conference wins in 2003, and zero in 2002. So that is four total conference wins in six seasons. BC and Notre Dame have strong football programs while still having strong education programs and graduation rates.
Its also a program that was very successful:
- The “Iron Duke” team of 1938 was undefeated, untied and unscored upon in the regular season.
- Duke has two Rose Bowl appearances (1938 & 1942). Has been to eight bowl games in total.
- Has three players in the Pro Football Hall of Fame (Sonny Jurgensen, George McAfee, Clarence (Ace) Parker)
- ACC Champions (or co-champions) in 1953, 1954, 1955, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1989 (trails only Clemson, FSU and MD in total championships)
- Many successful coaches include Wallace Wade, Bill Murray and Steve Spurrier.
Its embarrassing a program with a history like this is reduced to four total conference wins in the last six seasons.
November 19th, 2007
Don’t forget former NY Giant QB Dave Brown!
November 19th, 2007
Mike – think you are missing Bob’s point on Duke, which I have to agree with.
Everything you reference is out of conference games, and conference play is all that matters for determining who goes to the ACC Championship. The game is played by the team with the best conference record from each ACC division (Atlantic and Coastal).
Each ACC team plays one game against each opponent in their division, one rival game from the other division, and two rotating games against teams in the other division.
So, Boston College gets Virginia Tech for their rival, who generally has a very strong program. On the other hand, Wake Forest gets Duke every year as their rival.
Clemson and Florida State got lucky this year with the draw against Duke, which does give them a nice advantage trying to take the division. This “rotating” draw has not been evenly distributed in the three seasons of ACC divisions. Florida State has gotten Duke 3 years in a row. Clemson has gotten two years. BC got it once – last year. (Maryland and NC State have never gotten it.)
So until Duke gets a program that can be even remotely competitive, Wake Forest and two other teams in the Atlantic will get one easy game each year which makes having the best conference record easier.
November 19th, 2007
I totally get his point, but you can’t have it both ways.
The ACC wanted a 12-team league to make money, so they raided the Big East. BC wanted to join a football mega-conference. Well, this is what you get.
Coach K wanted to leave well enough alone in the ACC and he got outvoted. He saw this problem coming and he was right.
The Big 12, SEC, and Big T1E1N have similar problems like when Wisonsin went 11-1 last year and didn’t go to the BCS because they didn’t play Ohio State. Is that their fault? No, it is the Big Ten’s fault when they brought Penn State in.
So forgive me if the protests of hypocritical, money-hungry ACC schools don’t impress me.
BC (who in the Army, we would call “FNG”) joined the league like 5 minutes ago, helped CREATE this problem, and now complains about it? Please . . .
November 19th, 2007
You are completely correct in pointing out that teams are complaining about something they were instrumental in designing. Thats a perspective my post failed to address. I completely agree that BC is one twelfth guilty in this equation and everyone in the ACC should have known what they were getting themselves into.
There only option now is for the league to find ways to encourage Duke to be competitive to solve the problem. Its obvious that a great institution with a great athletic and academic track record fails to be embarrassed on their own.
November 19th, 2007
Bob, your soapbox whinings on Duke football have grown tiresome, annoying, and decidedly bitchy. Sounds like you’re jealous BC didn’t get to play them this year! I didn’t hear you whine when BC beat Duke last year (ironically, by the same 28-7 score that ND just did).
While you correctly note that Duke has no ACC wins this year, if you actually paid attention, you’d see that Duke IS NOT the perennial easy win it once provided. Duke’s only ACC blowout losses this year were to Clemson and VA Tech, both top-25 teams. Duke lost on the road to UVA by 11, and Miami by 10 – both very competitive games – and at home by only 5 to Wake. Just one or two plays (much like Duke’s two first half fumbles-turned-TDs against ND this weekend) go the other way in one of those games, and you can’t make this post. That’s how close Duke ACTUALLY is to becoming competitive again. Duke had two 1-point ACC losses last year, including having a game-winning FG blocked at the final gun @ eventually ACC champion Wake. None of these Duke kids or coaches really have the feeling of winning, and they’re still young – not one redshirt Soph, Junior or Senior on the roster – so it’s even harder for them to execute at crunch time – to know what it is to play winning football. But they’re getting there, and will be soon.
For my part, I can’t WAIT until Duke gets better, finally does play BC, and beats your ass. You will NEVER hear the end of it.
November 19th, 2007
Time out. BC has NEVER complained about Duke. That was me talking. I personally made an observation about an inequity that Duke creates in football, which Dave articulated better than I did. That said, things are much better for us financially, in terms of media exposure, and in terms of bowls than it was in the Big East. In fact, the Duke issue, which affects everyone in ACC Atlantic, is far less of an issue for BC than the issues that Notre Dame’s inequitable position in the Big East created.
As for “FNG”, last I checked the day after you become a member of an organization that is not seniority-based, you are an equal.
November 19th, 2007
I would like Duke to get better, and if they get back to the way they were and beat BC that would be great for the conference. And you are correct, they are getting better. I would like to see the university make a stronger public commitment to supporting the program, but you are right, they are improving.
November 19th, 2007
According to the “Irish Eyes” recent column defending how tough ND’s season was they wrote “Matt Ryan is seventh in total offense at 325.27 yards per game.” I just don’t know what to believe. Irish fans trashing BC by saying Ryan is “the #55 passing efficiency QB” or Irish fans puffing their program by noting that the same guy is seventh in total offense”. Maybe there are enough stats in sports to publish a two volume sequel to “How to Lie with Statistics”.
Also, my post was about the ACC divisional championship race, it had nothing to do with the National Championship. Nor, as best I can tell, do Baylor in The Big 12, Vandy in the SEC or Northwestern and Indiana in The Big Tenleven have to do with national championships. Since the Big Ten is a team shy of being able to have a championship game, Northwestern and Indiana are not relevant to this discussion.
I would guess that the same issue exists in the SEC and Big 12 with Baylor and Vandy to some degree. Anyone care to comment? I don’t think Vandy has been as uncompetitive in recent years as Duke. Not sure about Baylor.
November 19th, 2007
The Big T1e1n has 11 teams, so they can’t all play each other, that’s the point. In the Big East and PAC-10, everybody plays everybody so there aren’t these issues.
As for stats, I never said anything about Ryan being 7th in total offense and “Irish Eyes” never said anything about his being #55 in pass efficiency. YOu started your reply by saying that “BC never said . . . ” Don’t apply my comments to “all Notre Dame fans.”
Furthermore, if you think that all teams are created equal in the ACC, or even the NCAA at large, you are even more naive than I originally thought.
November 19th, 2007
You cited a stat that ranked him #55 and Irish Eyes cited one that ranked him 7th. I was making the larger point that stats in sports can often “prove” any position.
I never said that I thought teams are identical, this is getting absurd. As I am sure you know the topic of football parity in the ACC has been widely discussed this year.
As for the Big 10, your point that the disparity is worse due to the lack of a championship game makes sense.